Victorian lesbians and Always a Girl fic.

[sapote]

I totally just scored a copy of Tipping the Velvet off my church's bookloan shelf. I've been meaning to get to this one since I read Fingersmith, which was basically the perfect gothic romance, so I am delighted. And proud of my church's library. (Yesterday phnelt won the Unitariannets by citing specific doctrinal support for printing bandfic on my church's printer. I am putting money in the tin for paper and ink, don't worry.)

OKAY, the actual point of this entry: I am fascinated with this subgenre of genderswap that is cropping up where a character who is canonically male is a girl, has always been a girl, was in fact born a cisgendered woman-type person, and the story explores how her life has been different because of her gender. See for examples:

Story of a Girl, Stargate Atlantis, John/Rodney, by seperis (NC-17)

Secret Cave, The Used/MCR (bandom), Gerard/Bert, by sinsense (NC-17)

Not a Pretty Girl, MCR, Bob gen, by idyll.

(That last one is not just a citation but a big flaily rec. I mean, they're all good, but that last one won my heart so totally I wished I was a Time Lord just so I had more than one to give. Some day I will get sick of Time Lord jokes, but not today.)

ANYWAY, I am completely fascinated with this always-a-girl genre, which seems to have arisen out of wakes-up-a-girl genderswap. I would love to know any and all thoughts on it (does it make you uncomfortable? Do you Not Read Het? Does it make you feel vindicated, or full of joy?), and I would also love links to any and all stories or meta, in any fandom, that fall into this category. I think, among other things, that I might be about to meta myself, and I'd love some discussion first.

Comments

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

There are lots and lots of always-been-a-girl stories in SPN-dom, usually Sam but sometimes Dean. I used to enjoy them a lot, but more and more I find myself having trouble seeing the characters I know in the girl versions, so I still read them, but I'm not as crazy about them as I once was.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Hah, already I run into boundaries: could I read het Wincest, should it crop up? Any authors you remember in particular? Also, it sounds like in your experience girl-ness made the characters OOC - since I don't know the Winchesters as well as you, I'd love to know if you saw the same kind of OOC-nesses cropping up in different stories.

Though actually a private message might be good if you're up for discussing particular stories. Oh, the public-private nature fo the internet. So useful, and so problematic.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

There's lots and lots of it in SPN-dom but the leader of the pack is musesfool. She's got several stories, loosely part of the same 'verse, and the big epic one is Beggars Would Ride.

I do see the same OOC ness popping up, actually, because it's usually Sam. And that bugs me for a bunch of reasons. Sam is canonically the more ... well, feminine of the two. And I like that in a guy who is also big and tough and strong - it's less attractive when the character is made female and usually has less physical power. Most portrayals of always-a-girl Sam also make him/her a little ... like a changeling? Sort of weird mysterious and mercurial and unfathomable in a way that I don't really see in canonical Sam.

But for good writing, in addition to musesfool's fics, I'd recommend turn your head awhile (http://traveller.livejournal.com/1077915.html#cutid1) (this one's unusual in its characterization of girl!Sam), and lemon (http://traveller.livejournal.com/999169.html#cutid1) (more in keeping with what I usually see). As for girl!Dean, I like this one a lot (http://mona1347.livejournal.com/285943.html), but it's unfinished and likely to remain so.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, thank you for all the links. Yeah, that is interesting - and kind of predictable? - that Sam gets girlified more. I would like to read Dean as a girl, actually, from what I know of him, so that link especially is awesomesauce.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

sazzlette is writing a sort of loose girl!Dean series, if you're interested in that - she hasn't tagged them all, but you can find her Sam/Dean fic here (http://community.livejournal.com/lightontheblue/tag/pairing:sam/dean) and then scroll down for the ones marked Deangirl.

Most girl!Dean that I've seen has her sort of fierce and promiscuous with a kind of brittle bravado (and yes, this is all Wincest), but there was one story I read that was very very different- I forget who wrote it, but that girl!Dean was almost more ... oh, motherly, more open about having been hurt when Sam left for Stanford, less fierce.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Again, I'm handicapped here by my lack of canon knowledge, but I'd be curious how that whole carrying on the family tradition, keeping it all together dynamic would work if Dean had been born female. It just seems like it would play differently.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

I don't really recall seeing that dynamic explored unless it's in the one story that I can't remember ... I'll try to find it on spnstoryfinders, but my memories are so vague I may come up empty.

[rydra_wong]

Quick off-the-top-of-my-head linkage:

(I'm assuming you've already found synecdochic and ivorygates's Cammie and Dani stories, right?)

stultiloquentia had a post re: "always already" genderswap stories here, and people added a bunch of links and recs in the comments.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Cammie wins with great flailiness, partially because I'm pretty sure that's a character I know in real life, if you know what I mean? I think I found out once that in synecdochic's brain-canon Cammie was born a couple of miles from the house where I grew up.

Oh, thank you for that discussion link! That is massively useful.

[kuwdora.livejournal.com]

Is Tipping the Velvet a new source of inspiration for you? Does this mean that there might be Victorian lesbians popping up in future Torchwood fics and/or possible vids? Please say yes. I'll help you find a song for it and/or plot involving velvet tipping and Jack watching.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

OH DUDE, if someone has not already written Torchwood Victorian Lesbian hijinks with Jack somewhere around they totally should (seriously: Jack did not make Torchwood gayer, that brings me such joy). Actually, is there not a fan community already for the Victorian women from Fragments? Shouldn't there be?

I love Sarah Waters - she writes the most fact-full historical novels ever. Fingersmith was really kind of sweet, after all the sturm and drang, though this one is supposed to be a little more raunch and a little less True Love.

[lurkmuch.livejournal.com]

DUDE. I am likewise fascinated by this whole genre. When it's done right - i.e. it still feels in character to me, and actually seems like the the author is aware of how much harder it would be to be a bandom person/space action hero/crime fighter/whatever as a girl, or even as The Girl - I AM SO THERE.

Story of a Girl was maybe my favorite story in all of SGA last year, no exaggeration. I'm not even sure I can talk about it without flailing helplessly. Partly because it was so totally and perfectly John Sheppard (emotionally awkward, loves to fly, does NOT leave people behind and is incapable of not being in love with Rodney McKay despite thinking it's probably a bad idea) and also so girl!John - we see hints of how different life had to be for Jane in the military and on Atlantis.

The fact that it was Jane's mother who urged her to fly and told her she could do whatever she wanted really pushed my buttons. Also, for lack of a better term, the Han Solo character? Is always the one I fall in love with. Always. But it's always a guy. ALWAYS. That story felt like such a reclaiming of all media scifi since the history of time, remade in a way that suddenly I can actually see *us* in it. Jane gets to be both my hero, and The Hero. Which is pretty damn awesome. And we have reached the point where I can do nothing bu flail.

I believe I have already expressed my joy over girl!Bob. I was reading parts of that as it was posted, and I saw so many comments along the lines of how people really identified with girl!Bob.

(I have a fondness for genderswap as well, but usually not in a thinky way, mostly just for the porntastic crack.) Torchwood Victorian Lesbians would be made of win.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

See, okay, phnelt and I were having Theory of Slash in chat a while back, and I went "I think genderswap is a way to celebrate female sexuality while getting around canons that lack appealing female characters!", and phnelt responded with "But every single genderswap story relies on waking up with female genitalia and treating it like a disaster!". And it was interesting. It made me want to meta about gender in fanfiction, but I'm trying to hold off until I've thought through it a bit more. But yes, in general, I am pro genderswap as crack. I am pro genderswap as really, really hot crack, even, because dear lord, it's slash het, how is that not fabulous?

And re: born a woman fic, yes! How would their lives have been different? It is just such an interesting way of outlining, how do I say this, cultural gender differences? as we experience them. It's actually kind of a massively cool project for fandom to be engaging in right now, though I think it's interesting that - how do I say this without sounding wanky? I've definitely seen more stories in which Gerard Way's entire life has been reconstructed so that he's a girl than stories written about actual bandom girls. And so forth in other fandoms. I mean, I definitely choose girl!Character stories over reading about secondary characters who I just don't know that well who happen to be female. Which is interesting.

Also, everyone wants Torchwood lesbians \o/ I wish I was actually planning to write some Torchwood lesbians - maybe after I finish this book.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

Just have to jump in and say that not every genderswap story treats it like a disaster - I've definitely read SPN ones where the guys pretty much take it in stride. Not saying that they're the most in-character or believable fics, but there are definitely several of that genre.

When I was little, I always used to reimagine my favorite books/films/TV shows as if the hero was a woman - or swapping the genders of a romantic couple. It amused me to imagine how the story would have seemed with just that single change, and no other alterations. Sadly, it usually meant that the newly-female character seemed elevated and stronger, and the newly-male character seemed weak and passive; but you couldn't perceive it as clearly with the genders intact.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I asked phnelt about that phrasing before I posted that comment, because of course we tend to exaggerate the case in casual conversation in ways we wouldn't on a public thread. I've read a lot of genderswap where characters take it totally in stride, lately especially in bandom, and especially in the context of PWPs. To be honest, though, I find stories where characters are all "And I have to wear bras, and they itch, and people stare at me!" much more appealing than stories where character A wakes up a girl and immediately skips off to shave his legs and put on a miniskirt. This probably reveals much more about me than it does about genderswap.

And the spontaneous movie gender-switching is an excellent exercise - I do it sometimes, but often I get all bummed. Especially since, as lurkmuch points out, there are so many stock characters who are always one gender. Sigh.

[lurkmuch.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there's any correlation between age of the fandom and when the genderswap story is written? Like, I think there might tend to be more first-time stories early on in a fandom as people wrap their heads around new OTPs, but then as the fandom ages I think there tend to be more established relationship stories. Because the fandom as a whole has had time to get used to the idea. I'm wondering if there's a similar pattern in genderswap: *we're* getting used to the idea, so the characters freak out less. (Comedic potential might also play a part: I think the "not again" non-freakout to crazy stuff can be played for bigger laughs.)

And I think there's something to be said for the fact that even though the "OMG, wrong parts" freakout of porntastic crack starts out being seen as a disaster, it doesn't always stay that way. Girl!whoever usually seems to figure out "oh hey, MULTIPLE ORGASMS KIND OF ROCK". I don't think I can argue that as a major victory for feminism or anything, but it's a sort of victory for the character, isn't it?

Next time, coffee before meta.